[Frameworks] weird!

[Adam Hyman]

My guess is that it is easy to send to the whole list; it requires conscious
effort to send to only one person (saving that person¹s email, etc), so I¹m
thinking he intended it just for you, and you should have checked with him
before forwarding to the whole list.

That said, it is a useful contribution from Fred.  There are a group of
younger filmmakers, underseen, underappreciated.  At Filmforum we get full
houses for ³old masters² and sparse crowds for people currently making great
new work (if they aren¹t from Los Angeles) - not many people (at least here
in Los Angeles) are willing to check out new work by people they haven¹t
heard of.  Celebrity culture of the experimental film world?  Which leads to
lack of reviews, and the impossibility of consensus of ³new masters.²
Whether such a distinction is real ­ well, probably not -  but more
well-known figures are important for attendance at screenings, at least from
a programmers view.  Thus a catch-22.

Too many still think the ³avant-garde² was something that only lived in the
1960s and 1970s.

Best regards,

Adam Hyman
Los Angeles Filmforum


On 6/6/10 9:06 AM, "jason livingston" <jasonlivingston71 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Fred
> 
> I think you may have meant for this to be sent to the whole list, and not to
> me.
> 
> I'm not going to get into a big thing over this because it's actually pretty
> clear that I wasn't making an 'argument' at all but rather an observation, and
> a fairly loose one at that.
> 
> For the record, I make an attempt to consider both aesthetic and political
> 'arguments' quite seriously.  They're both complex matters, neither one easy.
> 
> Jason
> Ithaca, NY   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> > Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 19:33:59 -0500
>> > From: f at fredcamper.com
>> > To: jasonlivingston71 at hotmail.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Frameworks] weird!
>> > 
>> > Quoting jason livingston <jasonlivingston71 at hotmail.com>:
>> > 
>>> > > ....And please don't get me wrong here - because I don't want to
>>> > > start a  flame-out nor encourage a rants-and-raves style gripe
>>> > > session - but  the list does strike me as curiously heavy on the
>>> > > elders and vets....
>> > 
>> > What I really dislike about arguments like this one is that they are
>> > almost always political rather than aesthetic. Maybe that's because
>> > political arguments are easier to make, but to me such arguments
>> > degrade everything I care about in cinema. An argument like "too many
>> > oldsters" or "too many youngsters" or "not enough Japanese" tells me
>> > nothing, unless there is an obvious and extreme bias which of course
>> > should be noted, but which also seems to not be the case here. An
>> > argument such as "there's a group of younger filmmakers whose films
>> > are organized differently than earlier work, and whose work I love for
>> > these very different reasons, but which seems under-appreciated by
>> > many critics perhaps because of the difference," now that would be
>> > interesting, but that sort of thing is almost never heard. That the
>> > arguments to make for art should be ones of aesthetic merit seems
>> > tautological to me.
>> > 
>> > For the record, I was one of the 46, and the final list is quite
>> > different from what I submitted. That's the other problem with
>> > "averaging" lists. In the old days of the "Village Voice," Andrew
>> > Sarris would take a top ten poll of readers, but then he would also
>> > list every film mentioned; thus did a few obscure Brakhage films make
>> > it from my top ten into his column.
>> > 
>> > Fred Camper
>> > Chicago
>> > 
>> > 
>        
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