[Frameworks] B&W innerneg

[andrew lennox]

Hi Lyra,

Sam is right, if you process your plus-x with D-97 and dilute the working 
solution (say 9:1 or more) and lengthen the development time that will help.  

As far as what it will look like, I think you already suggested it in your first 
email:  increase in contrast and grain.  i think it looks cool but it is a 
specific look.  i think you said you want to reproduce the original as close as 
possible.  you're gonna lose detail with every generation.  7302 is meant for 
projection so it's gonna raise your contrast in the first generation and then 
you want to use a camera stock and then print from that.  that's two more 
generations and the interneg would be a camera stock that is not meant to be 
used for that purpose.  im not saying dont do it, bc i do it if that is what i 
am looking for and ive seen great results in other people's work.  doing a small 
test first is what i do.  for me, running the job is the easy part, the real 
work is the testing.  even if you go with the plus-x as the interneg i would 
still use 7366 as your master positive.  it is so flat that it looks really 
terrible but that is what you want at the intermediate stage;  you want as flat 
an image as possible until you get to the final release print stage (3302 in 
your case).  That print will give you back your contrast and the intermediate 
stocks (7234 and 7366) will help reproduce tonality/details/grain throughout 
generations.  this is just the traditional way to do it, do tests and see what 
works for you.  yes, as far as i know sebastjan will sell you some 7366.  i 
appreciate that money is tight but plus-x is gold now so if it were me and i 
could afford it then i would save my plus-x to shoot a new project. check with 
sebastjan to see if he will sell some 7234.  i think it is around the same price 
per foot as double-x (and what plus-x used to cost) and if you can get around 
the minimum buy from kodak by buying only what you need from sebastjan than so 
much the better, right?  i dont understand whether you have 300' of super 8 or 
you think the 16mm blow up will yield 300' of 16mm?  also, are you gonna 
optically print every generation or just the first and then contact print the 
interneg and release prints?  please say the latter :)  remember that you will 
be magnifying the grain during the blow up of the first stage.  and that you 
have crossed processed the super 8 as neg which should mean you already have an 
increase in grain and contrast.  for future reference, the easiest approach in 
terms of grain/contrast/generations, etc. is to process your super 8 as reversal 
and then make your interneg on 7234 on the jk.  but that's neither here nor 
there now.  anyway, maybe tmi, sorry.  feel free to contact me at any point.  it 
is a long road but i think you will be glad to follow it when you see results 
and possibilities.  it's interesting that this direction can solely be about 
technical reproduction or it can become a new creative direction in re-thinking 
your original film material/aesthetic/concept.  i wish you luck.  and do hit up 
sebastjan along the way.  he does this work on a daily basis and is excited to 
work with filmmakers.  finally, at the very least, im glad you dont intend to 
make the release prints on 3383.  you could do a lot of hard work and the 
results printing on that stock from a bw neg never look good from my experience.



________________________________
From: Lyra Hill <lyra.lou at gmail.com>
To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 11:50:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] B&W innerneg

Yes, this is a blow up from super8 negative (actually Plus-x reversal developed 
negative). I think I'm going to print to 7302 on the JK, then take it to an 
internegative, and use that internegative to make multiple prints with optical 
soundtracks, again on 7302. Seems as though this is the general best-quality 
consensus.


On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Sam Wells <silverfilm at gmail.com> wrote:

You could have the PlusX developed to a lower gamma to cut back
>contrast build-up a bit; grain you'll have some as compared to an
>internegative or master pos stock, but... it could look good...
>
>Double X will certainly add a bunch of grain.
>
>Are you asking then, what you should print to on your JK ? (not quite
>clear to me the steps),
>this is a blow up from the Super8 negative source ?
>
>-Sam
>
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