[Frameworks] Sound from Projectors

Thu Feb 24 11:24:12 CST 2011

To avoid accidentally going through a separate sound optical, you can specify
that they print it AS SUPER 16.

--------t0ny

On Thu 02/24/11 12:20 PM , Tom Whiteside tom.whiteside at duke.edu sent:
> If you want to make a scratch that will print in the soundtrack
> area, you have to let the lab know that you want it printed. I made a
> film called "Ding, Ding, Ding" by cutting numerous copies of a
> television commercial, I liked the way it played image and sound from
> the "original." I sent it to the lab and innocently asked for a print
> - of course the print came back silent, as I had not requested "print
> through sound."  I've always called this one "Ding, Ding, Dumb." So if
> you are expecting anything to be printed outside of the image area you
> need to be clear with the lab about this. 
> -           Tom
> FROM: frameworks-bounces at jonasmekasfilms.com
> [mailto:frameworks-bounces at jonasmekasfilms.com]  ON BEHALF OF Amanda
> Christie
> SENT: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:06 AM
> TO: Experimental Film Discussion List
> SUBJECT: Re: [Frameworks] Sound from Projectors
> I am a fan of using a kaoss pad with projectors.  it's like a pedal
> but has way more possibilities and it's well suited to live
> performance because it requires less finicky dexterity, and therefore
> frees your hands, fingers, and arms up for more projector work.  it is
> a pad with a few nobs... one nob lets you choose out of a hundred
> effects (delay, reverb, synths, etc), and the main part is a touch
> pad... you simply touch the pad and drag your finger along it to
> provide the effect.  although, if you're pedals are pre-set, it's
> nice to be able to use your feet... but you could use a kaoss pad
> with your toes and perform in bare feet. 
> as for scratching on film, i've done that and it can be quite
> tedious... upwards of 30 hours for one minute or less of film.   if
> you're not careful it just makes a bunch of farting sounds.  norman
> mclaren published a little legend of lines and the notes that they
> make.  you can actually get a musical scale of notes.... use vertical
> lines... the longer they are the louder... the further apart the
> lower... the closer together the higher... diagonal sounds will
> barely be heard... shapes also make sounds... and i believe that
> richard reeves published a legend of shapes and the sounds they make.
> 
> 
> you can also get sound by doing the reverse and putting black ink on
> clear leader.
> also, i have used a lab to make a print of double perf film when i
> wanted to get rid of the clicking sound.  in my experience, the print
> included the outlines of the perfs.... so the clicking sound was still
> there.  there were no actual perfs in the film but just the faint
> outline of the perfs.... and the clicking sound remained in the
> background.... not as loud... but still present.   you'd have to talk
> with the lab about that. 
> Amanda Dawn Christie
> 
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> www.amandadawnchristie.ca [1]
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> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> On 23-Feb-11, at 9:32 PM, mike rice wrote:
> Isaac, thanks for the advice. I think it is a great idea. The only
> difference is that in my film the sound (and projection for that
> matter) have much to do with the actual performance of operating them
> as machinery, and tools for illuminating exploration. I think using a
> drawn line on the optical track for a base, and manipulating that
> sound live, running the signal through a mixer/and or distortion
> pedal, would give me this freedom. 
> I will continue to experiment and update you with results. thanks
> again
> 
> best
> 
> Mike
> 
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:10 AM, Isaac Alpert Sherman  wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> What I've done to achieve this "slight hissing noise" is also
> slightly unorthodox. There are a couple ways to do it but basically
> what I've done is use black leader or even mag stock and scratch a
> straight (or close to straight) line along the soundtrack path. This
> will allow some light to come through from the exciter bulb but you
> won't have the clicking of the sprockets going through - rather,
> you'll get a kind of hissing popping sound similar to an old record.
> If the line isn't perfectly straight, it makes for a cool "in and
> out" effect and even alters the volume slightly.
> In your case, you could make this scratch line on your final print,
> but if you don't want to do that, perhaps you could give the lap an
> "optical master" of simply an equal length of black leader with a
> scratch along the optical path. I, myself, have never dealt with a
> lab, so I'm not sure if they would do this for you (special request
> in order?). Indeed, this is a tedious task but it might just give you
> the sound you're looking for...
> 
> As far as the sound coming out of the projectors, you'll probably
> want to run the speaker out into a direct box, converting it to a
> line level, then running that into your mixer or what-have-you.
> Hope this answers, or helps to answer your question.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Isaac Sherman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mike rice" 
> To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 6:49:56 PM
> Subject: [Frameworks] Sound from Projectors
> Hello fello Frameworkers:
> 
> I am currently in the midst of my thesis project. It is an
> experimental film, employing multiple projections (both 16 and Super
> 8, optical printing, painting on film, etc etc) and I am attempting
> something a bit unorthodox as far as the sound goes and I was
> wondering if any of you would have input...
> 
> For mostly conceptual reasons, I want the sound in the film to be the
> actual sound coming from the projector itself (while my film is
> playing through). As is, my film is double perf so I will be getting
> an inter-neg made and a final print (single perf) so that you do not
> hear the "clickclickclick" of each sprocket hole. So here is my
> question: I intend on running several guitar distortion pedals from
> the project to the amplifier of the theater. I will be slightly
> adjusting the tone of the pedals while the film is running. Has
> anyone done this before? have advice on the best way to get "funky"
> sounds out of the projector....
> I know this is a pretty broad question, but I just wanted people to
> share their stories (if you have any) about using the sound of the
> projector itself (the slight hissing noise) as a soundtrack.
> 
> best, Mike Rice
> 
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