[Frameworks] Drama films and the Avant-Garde

[Jonathan Thomas]

"For me Avant Garde is much more about breaking up the orthodox systems of false 
realism in narrative than it is about messing with the material/photography 
(which I love too)."

Are they even separate though, especially in terms of motivation? For me, whether 
you employ 'systemic' or 'material' etc. investigations, in the end thay are all 
different strategies united by the single aim of breaking the illusion of 
reality inherent in dominant cinema.

________________________________
From: Jorge Lorenzo Flores Garza <jorgelorenzo at hotmail.com>
To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Sent: Thu, 27 January, 2011 1:13:56
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Drama films and the Avant-Garde

Mat Fleming:  For me Avant Garde is much more about breaking up the orthodox 
systems  of false realism in narrative than it is about messing with the  
material/photography (which I love too).

I absolutely agree with that because if it is about breaking new ground and 
discovering new forms of production, then anything from Jurassic Park to Pixar 
is experimental.  It is definitely, at least for me too, about breaking systems 
of false realism.

And I find interesting what Mat says about the Bourne Ultimatum.  I haven't seen 
it, but very often in extremely commercial Hollywood productions I see this 
pattern of loosing sense of logic and storytelling.  I saw a way worst film the 
other day: Prince of Persia.  It was interesting that at points it didn't matter 
who was killing who or even who was who, it was more about the abstract play in 
the imagery with all the action-cgi shots.  And it makes sense with Jack Smith's 
comment about cinema not needing a storyline or anything since it's a purely 
visual medium (after analyzing von Sternberg's films).

Jorge L.



________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 00:52:53 +0000
From: matfleming76 at googlemail.com
To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Drama films and the Avant-Garde

I feel daft as I write this and maybe I was drunk and impressionable when I 
first saw it (in fact I know I was) but honestly I thought the Bourne Ultimatum 
approached being deserving of being a bit Avant-Garde. 

I say this in the sense that it pushes the boundaries formally. It is pure 
action from start to finish. I don't think there is a shot in that whole film 
that lasts more than 4 or 5 seconds. There are nearly no establishing shots or 
interludes while story is developed - story and action are one. And no interlude 
for love and all that normal routine. I think the trilogy has changed that kind 
of action film forever - Bond looks ridiculous once you've seen Bourne. You can 
tell the producers of the last one Quantum of Solace were trying to incorporate 
the editing style but they missed the point completely and the film is crap as a 
result in my opinion.

I'm not saying it's a great film or anything; thematically it's rubbish and it's 
certainly not subversive - which I am always looking for in AG film - but I do 
think that it's experimental in a similar way to Hitchcock's formal feature 
experiments. And as a result it's exciting on a certain level. For me Avant 
Garde is much more about breaking up the orthodox systems of false realism in 
narrative than it is about messing with the material/photography (which I love 
too).

Mat



On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Francisco Torres <fjtorrespr at gmail.com> wrote:

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