[Frameworks] Value systems

[Gawthrop, Rob]

I wonder whether there are some issues that need teasing out regarding
'quality' or 'production values' and what these are really about?  Is it
particularities, peculiarities and specificities that need consideration
rather than assumed notions around image resolution, depiction (mimesis)? Is
it the 'poornessness' of early b/w video that is of interest rather than its
inability to produce a convincing window on the world?   The analogy with
music is perhaps not so much about live or recorded but about what it is
that is being listened to?  The amount written recently around noise is
pertinent to issues around 'quality' and not just restricted to music.

So what are the value systems operating around experimental / artists film &
video?

Best Wishes

Rob


On 17/11/2011 23:06, "Fred Camper" <f at fredcamper.com> wrote:

> Quoting Carlileb at aol.com:

> I also think that this "look" appeal-thing is
> like wanting to buy  a
> blow-up doll as a substitute for a girlfriend.

I
> really don't want to restart the film/video thing, but feel the need
to make
> a couple of observations.

It seems to be entirely acceptable and unquestioned
> on this list to
post that some or all forms of video projection look like
> crap, as the
analogy above, film=live girlfriend and video=blow-up doll,
> confirms.
Praise of video's own unique possibilities, many of which are
>
different from film and can produce results that film cannot, seems
almost
> entirely absent.

As a format for presenting film, it is, of course,
> imperfect, as I
myself argued almost three decades ago, though that was in
> the days of
VHS, a lot worse than more recent formats.

But we need to
> remember that film is not a "girlfriend." It is a strip
of plastic with a
> bunch of chemicals, not a lot more "substantial"
than digital formats, and
> almost as alienated from actual human
presences. The pseudo mystical
> statements with words like "never"
strike me as not substantiatable. We
> cannot predict what future
technology will come up with. To the film critic
> who once defined a
great film as time spent with people one likes that one
> wishes would
never end, I would reply, if you want a real person, go out and
> spend
time with one!

One analogy one might consider is to a live concert of
> classical music
versus a recording. The difference there is huger than
> between film
and high quality video, and some people I respect, John Cage
> and Peter
Kubelka to name two, got/get pleasure out of recordings. Yet I
> can,
and many times a good recording is preferable to me, and more musical,
>
than a bad performance. I once heard one of my heroes, Ton Koopman,
live,
> leading his group in some Bach cantatas. I have all his
recordings of these.
> Yet, yet, yet, the acoustics in the hall were so
poor,  much was lost, and
> in the end I got more pleasure from the
recordings. Yet of course a
> recording can never replace, or be the
same as, a concert with live
> performers. But recordings are invaluable
for many reasons, not the least
> that they permit multiple listenings.

VHS wrecked the aesthetic of many, if
> not most, films. There are
perhaps some films whose aesthetic will be mostly
> or totally lost even
in 4K projection. I suspect they are very few compared
> to the films
destroyed on VHS or even on DVD. A small or even medium-sized
> loss is
not a ruination. I hope those who want to work with film will keep
> it
alive in various ways. And I don't want to lose film, certainly not
for
> preservation of films, and will still always prefer it for films
shot on
> film. But we have little influence over what happens on the
industrial
> scale, and while we should do what we can, a group of our
size and influence
> is not going to stop time. In the end, no one can.

Fred
> Camper
Chicago



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