[Frameworks] E6 super8 process

Thu Feb 16 08:05:55 CST 2012

You only need one litre to process two rolls of Super 8,

Nicky.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rebekka Erin Moran <rebekka.moran at gmail.com>
To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Sent: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:25
Subject: [Frameworks] E6 super8 process

Hi all!
I am hosting a super8 competition and will be handprocessing all the submissions... so i wondered if there is a solid estimate
for how many rolls can be processed per 1L (I have a lomo tank) before adding time.  and how much time is added then after that?
It seems some people thought it was at 5 rolls no longer good and others at 12 rolls.  

Normally I process 16mm in varying lengths and quite experimental - but as these are other peoples films for a competition
I was hoping to get some solid information!

I have the two level LOMO - so i will be processing two rolls at a time with 1.5L

best,
Rebekka

On Feb 16, 2012, at 12:53 AM, frameworks-request at jonasmekasfilms.com wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: E-6 Imperfections (nicky.hamlyn at talktalk.net)
   2. Re: Bleaching color movie print (Myron Ort)
   3. Re: Wtd: Regular 8mm Guillotine splicer (David Tetzlaff)
   4. Re: E-6 Imperfections (Kevin Timmins)
   5. Super 8 mm projector made from Legos (steve cossman)
   6. Re: Super 8 mm projector made from Legos (Ryan Marino)
   7. Re: E-6 Imperfections (John Woods)
   8. Rewind crank for Bolex. (steve cossman)
   9. Re: Rewind crank for Bolex. (steve cossman)

From: nicky.hamlyn at talktalk.net

Date: February 15, 2012 6:08:03 PM GMT

To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com

Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

I'm pretty sure "Sixty films" refers to 36 exposure 35mm slide films, not Super 8 films. One 35mm slide film is about 1.3meters long, which roughly equates to five meters of Super 8, whereas a roll of Super 8 is 15 metres long. That means a 5 litre kit would process about twenty rolls of Super 8 and a one litre kit only about four. (Correct me if I've blundered with the sums!)

Nicky.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com>
To: FrameWorks <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
Sent: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:47
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Oh right, thanks Nicky

On the box it says that the 5 liter kit can process 60 films. I did the simple math and figured that 1ltr should process 12 films with good results. Apparently not! Seems a little cunning to state it can do twice the amount the chemicals are capable of! 

Best
Kevin  

To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:31:07 -0500
From: nicky.hamlyn at talktalk.net
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

I think you may be over-using the chemicals, assuming it's the Tetenal three bath kit. If you do the calculations you can do up to six rolls safely, but strictly five rolls, if I'm not mistaken, so the sixth is a bonus. After that you're gambling with exhausted chemicals,

Nicky Hamlyn.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com>
To: FrameWorks <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:17
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Hi Erin,

Indeed I am using a Lomo developing tank. I did checked the spacing of the film on the reels whilst hanging it to dry and all the film looked perfectly mounted. However I suppose it could have shifted and re-shifted in the tank during the reversal process? I don't know if this will help but the brown bits aren't as visible on the lighter (outdoor images) but are worse on the indoor images. For example one roll of film (100D) was used indoors and it was inevitably very dark anyway. The brown transparent layer seemed much more prominent on these darker images and was much more noticeable.

Can that tell me anything?

Kevin  

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:59:00 -0500
From: erincw at gmail.com
To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Hi Kevin,

Are you using a lomo tank?

Your problem sounds like the same one I have had with both E6 and B&W reversal in lomo tanks.
I think those brown bits are occurring anywhere that the film slips out of alignment and touches an adjacent piece of film for too long. 
Neither bit of film is then making proper contact with the processing chemicals. 
Further, this seems to be happening somewhere in the reversal stage. 
In one case I actually had this layer going on for a while with bits of negative and positive imagery appearing throughout it. I inferred that that the film was making proper chemical contact at various stages of the process, but not all. That was a particularly poorly loaded tank.

In the case I have described above, the brown stuff is opaque and seems almost thicker than the rest of the film. On other film stocks it appears as different colours.

Strange that you only had this problem on your 7th and 8th rolls, but less strange if you processed them together. Maybe you are encountering something totally different.

Hope this helps,

Erin

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I've been doing a lot of Super 8 developing for people over the last few weeks. The last two film I developed last night had an interesting imperfection and I wondered if anyone on frameworks could shed some light on what's happening.

The chemicals were mixed on the 1st and as far as I'm aware the chemicals are viable for up to 2 weeks. I've actually developed film with chemicals 3 weeks old and got fantastic results. However I'm developing other peoples films so I'm not developing past today/tomorrow at the very latest. I've got 4 more films I need to develop tonight and tomorrow night.

Last night I developed my 7th and 8th super 8 film in the tank (apparently you can do up to 12 with one liter), but anyway I wondered if this could contribute to the problem.

So the problem... Ok now the films have come out great overall but in parts there seems to be this light browny kind of layer that fluidly move across the image, in parts it's centralized and in others it's on the edges. Like I say overall the images are clearly visible and sharp without much grain but there just seems to me this brown mask that intermittently comes and goes. It's present on both films I developed. Any ideas? 

Could light be getting in the tank somehow? If anyone has come along this effect in the past please let me know.

Thanks
Kevin    

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_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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<Mail Attachment.eml><Mail Attachment.eml>

From: Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com>

Date: February 15, 2012 6:36:40 PM GMT

To: FrameWorks <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

It's amazing how far the chemicals will go if you push it (not figuratively). The results are still very good, only with that transparent brown stuff coming and going intermittently. I'm going to develop some more of my own films with it tonight and see what happens! 

Thanks Nicky for the help! 
Kevin 

To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:08:03 -0500
From: nicky.hamlyn at talktalk.net
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

I'm pretty sure "Sixty films" refers to 36 exposure 35mm slide films, not Super 8 films. One 35mm slide film is about 1.3meters long, which roughly equates to five meters of Super 8, whereas a roll of Super 8 is 15 metres long. That means a 5 litre kit would process about twenty rolls of Super 8 and a one litre kit only about four. (Correct me if I've blundered with the sums!)

Nicky.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com>
To: FrameWorks <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
Sent: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:47
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Oh right, thanks Nicky

On the box it says that the 5 liter kit can process 60 films. I did the simple math and figured that 1ltr should process 12 films with good results. Apparently not! Seems a little cunning to state it can do twice the amount the chemicals are capable of! 

Best
Kevin  

To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:31:07 -0500
From: nicky.hamlyn at talktalk.net
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

I think you may be over-using the chemicals, assuming it's the Tetenal three bath kit. If you do the calculations you can do up to six rolls safely, but strictly five rolls, if I'm not mistaken, so the sixth is a bonus. After that you're gambling with exhausted chemicals,

Nicky Hamlyn.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com>
To: FrameWorks <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:17
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Hi Erin,

Indeed I am using a Lomo developing tank. I did checked the spacing of the film on the reels whilst hanging it to dry and all the film looked perfectly mounted. However I suppose it could have shifted and re-shifted in the tank during the reversal process? I don't know if this will help but the brown bits aren't as visible on the lighter (outdoor images) but are worse on the indoor images. For example one roll of film (100D) was used indoors and it was inevitably very dark anyway. The brown transparent layer seemed much more prominent on these darker images and was much more noticeable.

Can that tell me anything?

Kevin  

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:59:00 -0500
From: erincw at gmail.com
To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Hi Kevin,

Are you using a lomo tank?

Your problem sounds like the same one I have had with both E6 and B&W reversal in lomo tanks.
I think those brown bits are occurring anywhere that the film slips out of alignment and touches an adjacent piece of film for too long. 
Neither bit of film is then making proper contact with the processing chemicals. 
Further, this seems to be happening somewhere in the reversal stage. 
In one case I actually had this layer going on for a while with bits of negative and positive imagery appearing throughout it. I inferred that that the film was making proper chemical contact at various stages of the process, but not all. That was a particularly poorly loaded tank.

In the case I have described above, the brown stuff is opaque and seems almost thicker than the rest of the film. On other film stocks it appears as different colours.

Strange that you only had this problem on your 7th and 8th rolls, but less strange if you processed them together. Maybe you are encountering something totally different.

Hope this helps,

Erin

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I've been doing a lot of Super 8 developing for people over the last few weeks. The last two film I developed last night had an interesting imperfection and I wondered if anyone on frameworks could shed some light on what's happening.

The chemicals were mixed on the 1st and as far as I'm aware the chemicals are viable for up to 2 weeks. I've actually developed film with chemicals 3 weeks old and got fantastic results. However I'm developing other peoples films so I'm not developing past today/tomorrow at the very latest. I've got 4 more films I need to develop tonight and tomorrow night.

Last night I developed my 7th and 8th super 8 film in the tank (apparently you can do up to 12 with one liter), but anyway I wondered if this could contribute to the problem.

So the problem... Ok now the films have come out great overall but in parts there seems to be this light browny kind of layer that fluidly move across the image, in parts it's centralized and in others it's on the edges. Like I say overall the images are clearly visible and sharp without much grain but there just seems to me this brown mask that intermittently comes and goes. It's present on both films I developed. Any ideas? 

Could light be getting in the tank somehow? If anyone has come along this effect in the past please let me know.

Thanks
Kevin    

_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________FrameWorks mailing listFrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.comhttps://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________FrameWorks mailing listFrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.comhttps://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
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From: steve cossman <stevecossman at hotmail.com>

Date: February 15, 2012 6:38:12 PM GMT

To: <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

Subject: [Frameworks] Super 8 mm projector made from Legos

Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

Good afternoon Frameworkers, 

 Just wanted to share this: 

Lego Technic Super-8 Movie Projector - YouTube

 Now all we need is one that makes film stock... 

 : ) 

 Steve Cossman

From: Ryan Marino <ryandmarino at gmail.com>

Date: February 15, 2012 6:57:13 PM GMT

To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Super 8 mm projector made from Legos

Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

awesome!

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM, steve cossman <stevecossman at hotmail.com> wrote:

Good afternoon Frameworkers, 

 Just wanted to share this: 

Lego Technic Super-8 Movie Projector - YouTube

 Now all we need is one that makes film stock... 

 : ) 

 Steve Cossman

_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

-- 
www.ryanmarino.com
www.imminentfrequencies.com

From: John Woods <jawoods01 at yahoo.ca>

Date: February 15, 2012 7:49:44 PM GMT

To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Reply-To: John Woods <jawoods01 at yahoo.ca>, Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

According to Martin Baumgarten (and other sources you should be adding developer time as you exhaust the chemicals:

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/spiralreel.html

~~~> BLACK & WHITE Film Processing Control <~~~

(1).   The best way to maintain control of your processing for any 
process type, is to keep track of how many films you have processed in 
a given solution and either replenish the solutions so they maintain 
full-strength and/or adjust your processing time.  A Liter of chemistry 
will process about 6 to 8 rolls of Super 8mm film.  After each roll of 
film if processing separately, add approximately 15 seconds to each 
Developer time only.   Or after processing two rolls of
 Super 8mm film, 
add 30 seconds to the next film batch.  These are approximations 
intended to quide you to correct final film density.  

He also recommends creating your own control strips so you can keep track of the density. He describes that process on that link. I've never done that but if you have a large amount of film to process its probably worth the effort.

  From: "nicky.hamlyn at talktalk.net" <nicky.hamlyn at talktalk.net>
 To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:08:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

I'm pretty sure "Sixty films" refers to 36 exposure 35mm slide films, not Super 8 films. One 35mm slide film is about 1.3meters long, which roughly equates to five meters of Super 8, whereas a roll of Super 8 is 15 metres long. That means a 5 litre kit would process about twenty rolls of Super 8 and a one litre kit only about four. (Correct me if I've blundered with the sums!)

Nicky.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com>
To: FrameWorks <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
Sent: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:47
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Oh right, thanks Nicky

On the box it says that the 5 liter kit can process 60 films. I did the simple math and figured that 1ltr should process 12 films with good results. Apparently not! Seems a little cunning to state it can do twice the amount the chemicals are capable of! 

Best
Kevin  

To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:31:07 -0500
From: nicky.hamlyn at talktalk.net
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

I think you may be over-using the chemicals, assuming it's the Tetenal three bath kit. If you do the calculations you can do up to six rolls safely, but strictly five rolls, if I'm not mistaken, so the sixth is a bonus. After that you're gambling with exhausted chemicals,

Nicky Hamlyn.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com>
To: FrameWorks <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:17
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Hi Erin,

Indeed I am using a Lomo developing tank. I did checked the spacing of the film on the reels whilst hanging it to dry and all the film looked perfectly mounted. However I suppose it could have shifted and re-shifted in the tank during the reversal process? I don't know if this will help but the brown bits aren't as visible on the lighter (outdoor images) but are worse on the indoor images. For example one roll of film (100D) was used indoors and it was inevitably very dark anyway. The brown transparent layer seemed much more prominent on these darker images and was much more noticeable.

Can that tell me anything?

Kevin  

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:59:00 -0500
From: erincw at gmail.com
To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] E-6 Imperfections

Hi Kevin,

Are you using a lomo tank?

Your problem sounds like the same one I have had with both E6 and B&W reversal in lomo tanks.
I think those brown bits are occurring anywhere that the film slips out of alignment and touches an adjacent piece of film for too long. 
Neither bit of film is then making proper contact with the processing chemicals. 
Further, this seems to be happening somewhere in the reversal stage. 
In one case I actually had this layer going on for a while with bits of negative and positive imagery appearing throughout it. I inferred that that the film was making proper chemical contact at various stages of the process, but not all. That was a particularly poorly loaded tank.

In the case I have described above, the brown stuff is opaque and seems almost thicker than the rest of the film. On other film stocks it appears as different colours.

Strange that you only had this problem on your 7th and 8th rolls, but less strange if you processed them together. Maybe you are encountering something totally different.

Hope this helps,

Erin

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Kevin Timmins <on-one-2 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I've been doing a lot of Super 8 developing for people over the last few weeks. The last two film I developed last night had an interesting imperfection and I wondered if anyone on frameworks could shed some light on what's happening.

The chemicals were mixed on the 1st and as far as I'm aware the chemicals are viable for up to 2 weeks. I've actually developed film with chemicals 3 weeks old and got fantastic results. However I'm developing other peoples films so I'm not developing past today/tomorrow at the very latest. I've got 4 more films I need to develop tonight and tomorrow night.

Last night I developed my 7th and 8th super 8 film in the tank (apparently you can do up to 12 with one liter), but anyway I wondered if this could contribute to the problem.

So the problem... Ok now the films have come out great overall but in parts there seems to be this light browny kind of layer that fluidly move across the image, in parts it's centralized and in others it's on the edges. Like I say overall the images are clearly visible and sharp without much grain but there just seems to me this brown mask that intermittently comes and goes. It's present on both films I developed. Any ideas? 

Could light be getting in the tank somehow? If anyone has come along this effect in the past please let me know.

Thanks
Kevin    

_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________FrameWorks mailing listFrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.comhttps://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________FrameWorks mailing listFrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.comhttps://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________
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FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
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From: steve cossman <stevecossman at hotmail.com>

Date: February 16, 2012 12:36:52 AM GMT

To: <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

Subject: [Frameworks] Rewind crank for Bolex.

Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

 Hello Frameworkers, 

 I'm shooting a film this weekend and would like to do a little double exposure action. 

 I have a Bolex, looking to borrow kindly a rewind crank.  

 Happy to return the favor with other equipment, a small amount of cash, or homemade soup (trust me you want the soup)

 Feel free to contact me off-list.

 Thank you

 Steve Cossman

From: steve cossman <stevecossman at hotmail.com>

Date: February 16, 2012 12:53:49 AM GMT

To: <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Rewind crank for Bolex.

Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>

 Brooklyn Area. 

 : ) 

From: stevecossman at hotmail.com
To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:36:52 -0500
Subject: [Frameworks] Rewind crank for Bolex.

 Hello Frameworkers, 

 I'm shooting a film this weekend and would like to do a little double exposure action. 

 I have a Bolex, looking to borrow kindly a rewind crank.  

 Happy to return the favor with other equipment, a small amount of cash, or homemade soup (trust me you want the soup)

 Feel free to contact me off-list.

 Thank you

 Steve Cossman

_______________________________________________FrameWorks mailing listFrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.comhttps://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________
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https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

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FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
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