[Frameworks] 16mm synchronizers with sound
Rebekka Erin Moran
rebekka.moran at gmail.com
Sun Jan 26 13:10:34 UTC 2014
Thanks for all the replies!
DAVID / SCOTT/ JEFF. I will check out all the brands you mentioned. I am taking apart a Bell and Howell filmosound slot load- not to put it back into another casing but to mount it on the wall and play optical sound loops... A sound electronics friend of mine is helping. The use of the synchroizer is as a motor driver that can essentially create multiple film loops at once. So thats why I need optical heads- for reading optical tracks I already have. But I have played with the idea of using some mag stock as well.
JEAN-LOUIS, I would be very honored to have your optical readers if you can find them. I can send you shipping costs via paypal ? I live in Iceland.
Thanks!'
Rebecca
On Jan 26, 2014, at 12:01 PM, frameworks-request at jonasmekasfilms.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. 16mm synchronizers with sound (Rebekka Erin Moran)
> 2. Re: 16mm synchronizers with sound (Isaac Brooks)
> 3. Re: 16mm synchronizers with sound (David Tetzlaff)
> 4. Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced portabe video
> projector that's adequate for showing films? (David Tetzlaff)
> 5. Re: Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced portabe video
> projector that's adequate for showing films? (Julian Antos)
> 6. Re: 16mm synchronizers with sound (Scott Dorsey)
> 7. Re: Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced portabe video
> projector that's adequate for showing films? (Isaac Brooks)
> 8. Re: 16mm synchronizers with sound (Jean-Louis Seguin)
> 9. Re: 16mm synchronizers with sound (Jeff Kreines @ Kinetta)
>
> From: Rebekka Erin Moran <rebekka.moran at gmail.com>
> Date: January 25, 2014 4:32:45 PM GMT
> To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> Subject: [Frameworks] 16mm synchronizers with sound
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am collecting 16mm synchronizers for an installation project. Does anybody know if the synchronizers with sound heads are for reading Mag only
> or do any exist that also read optical? Is it possible to remove and optical reader from a projector and make it run independently? I have taken apart an old projector and am attempting to connect the optical head so that it can produce sound from a film loop without a projector. any mechanical information or ideas much appreciated. Also - please be in touch if anybody has any synchronizers of any number of gangs they do not need or want. Many thanks!!
>
> all the best,
> Rebecca
>
>
>
> From: Isaac Brooks <isaacbrooks22 at gmail.com>
> Date: January 25, 2014 6:06:44 PM GMT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16mm synchronizers with sound
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> Yes, the usual synchronizer/squawkbox setup is for mag.
>
> IB
>
> On Saturday, January 25, 2014, Rebekka Erin Moran <rebekka.moran at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am collecting 16mm synchronizers for an installation project. Does anybody know if the synchronizers with sound heads are for reading Mag only
> or do any exist that also read optical? Is it possible to remove and optical reader from a projector and make it run independently? I have taken apart an old projector and am attempting to connect the optical head so that it can produce sound from a film loop without a projector. any mechanical information or ideas much appreciated. Also - please be in touch if anybody has any synchronizers of any number of gangs they do not need or want. Many thanks!!
>
> all the best,
> Rebecca
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
>
> From: David Tetzlaff <djtet53 at gmail.com>
> Date: January 25, 2014 6:41:57 PM GMT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16mm synchronizers with sound
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
>> Is it possible to remove an optical reader from a projector and make it run independently?
>
> Theoretically, yes, but it would be quite difficult. The device would need to contain the exciter lamp, the optical pick up, a film path with rollers between the two, the power supply for the exciter lamp, and at a minimun the preamp section following the audio pick-up. Extracting all this from a projector and building it into some custom case would be quite a job. It might be easier to start with a projector that's relatively easy to open-up — a Singer/Telex slot-load for example, disable the functions you DON'T want — e.g. if you don't want projector noise, disconnect the motor; if you don't want a light beam, remove the lamp, etc) then devise a threading path so the synchronizer can pull through the loop through the optical reader section on the projector. (You might also have to remove a drive sprocket or two).
>
>
>
>
>
> From: David Tetzlaff <djtet53 at gmail.com>
> Date: January 25, 2014 7:16:23 PM GMT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Subject: [Frameworks] Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced portabe video projector that's adequate for showing films?
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> I'm not up on the latest projector technology. I'm wondering-if/hoping-that technical advances have created an answer to the question above.
>
> Historically, you could divide video projectors into three types:
>
> 1. LCD: bright, with vivid but typically wildly inaccurate color rendition — both in hue and (over)saturation, very poor contrast ratio, and utterly unable to render monochrome images correctly... designed to project computer screens, good for that, not much else.
>
> 2. 1-chip DLP: not so bright, color accurate but a little washed out, pretty good contrast (for a video projector, anyway) but subject to generating flashes of extremely distracting moire due to the rotating color wheel's inability to deal with quick changes in image brightness at cuts.
>
> 3. 3-chip DLP: very nice image in every way, but big, heavy and EXPENSIVE.
>
> My old thought was that perhaps LCD technology would improve to the point where the contrast ratio and color accuracy (especially with monochrome) would improve to the point of minimum acceptability for film screening. I doubt that 1-chip DLPs could have overcome the color-wheel-moire problem. But either way, I don't know what has actually happened in terms of the current market.
>
> I'm not seeking anything that would be bright enough for even a small auditorium, but rather a living-room/small-classroom size venue with seating room for 10-25 people (who can be fairly tightly packed together if need be). I would hope for at least 720P resolution.
>
> Reports on any experiences with recent projector models would be welcome, positive or negative.
>
> And by "reasonably-priced" I mean under $1,000.
>
>
>
> From: Julian Antos <julian at northwestchicagofilmsociety.org>
> Date: January 25, 2014 7:26:43 PM GMT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced portabe video projector that's adequate for showing films?
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> My parents have one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Epson-V11H562020-PowerLite-Cinema-Projector/dp/B00EU9V3VW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1390677818&sr=8-6&keywords=1080+projector
>
> It's surprisingly good. Color is fine, image is very sharp, and it's under 1K. Their screen is about 10' wide, native 1.85
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 1:16 PM, David Tetzlaff <djtet53 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not up on the latest projector technology. I'm wondering-if/hoping-that technical advances have created an answer to the question above.
>
> Historically, you could divide video projectors into three types:
>
> 1. LCD: bright, with vivid but typically wildly inaccurate color rendition — both in hue and (over)saturation, very poor contrast ratio, and utterly unable to render monochrome images correctly... designed to project computer screens, good for that, not much else.
>
> 2. 1-chip DLP: not so bright, color accurate but a little washed out, pretty good contrast (for a video projector, anyway) but subject to generating flashes of extremely distracting moire due to the rotating color wheel's inability to deal with quick changes in image brightness at cuts.
>
> 3. 3-chip DLP: very nice image in every way, but big, heavy and EXPENSIVE.
>
> My old thought was that perhaps LCD technology would improve to the point where the contrast ratio and color accuracy (especially with monochrome) would improve to the point of minimum acceptability for film screening. I doubt that 1-chip DLPs could have overcome the color-wheel-moire problem. But either way, I don't know what has actually happened in terms of the current market.
>
> I'm not seeking anything that would be bright enough for even a small auditorium, but rather a living-room/small-classroom size venue with seating room for 10-25 people (who can be fairly tightly packed together if need be). I would hope for at least 720P resolution.
>
> Reports on any experiences with recent projector models would be welcome, positive or negative.
>
> And by "reasonably-priced" I mean under $1,000.
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
>
> --
> Julian Antos
> Northwest Chicago Film Society
> www.northwestchicagofilmsociety.org
> 773 827 8991
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Scott Dorsey <kludge at panix.com>
> Date: January 25, 2014 7:34:29 PM GMT
> To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16mm synchronizers with sound
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> 1. No, as far as I know, nobody has made a synchronizer with an optical head.
> Magnasync did make outboard optical heads that would plug into a squawk box
> for editing; they did not have any flywheel. I never saw one in real life,
> only at trade shows.
>
> 2. Yes, you can run the optical head out of a projector outside the projector.
> Supply 4V to light the exciter lamp (a 5V power supply with two series
> diodes to drop the voltage is a common solution) and take the solar cell
> output into a microphone preamp. It will take about 40 dB to bring the
> signal up to line level.
>
> 3. In the seventies there were a lot of JAN projector soundheads available on
> the surplus market. I tried to make an editing device using one, but I found
> that without the proper flywheel arrangement the flutter was so high that
> voices were almost unintelligible, and with the proper flywheel I could not
> start and stop on a dime (as is needed for editing) without scratching the
> hell out of the film.
>
> 4. If you have a synchronizer, why do you need optical sound anyway? Just take
> your optical track, dub it to fullcoat, and run it in parallel with the other
> stuff. The miracle of mag is that it's easy to put anything you want on it
> any time.
> --scott
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Isaac Brooks <isaacbrooks22 at gmail.com>
> Date: January 25, 2014 7:46:04 PM GMT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced portabe video projector that's adequate for showing films?
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> +1 on Epson. My partner and I have a Powerlite 78, purchased in 2010. Resolution is OK. I'd think that by now you could get a better one for what we paid 4 years ago (600 usd, about). What has impressed me most about it is the build quality and the absolute lack of any issues.
>
> For solid group viewing in standard def, it's a fine machine. She uses it sometimes at her workplace for media-supported meetings/conferences, and it doesn't disappoint as a workhorse unit. It's very portable.
>
> Isaac
>
> On Saturday, January 25, 2014, Julian Antos <julian at northwestchicagofilmsociety.org> wrote:
> My parents have one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Epson-V11H562020-PowerLite-Cinema-Projector/dp/B00EU9V3VW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1390677818&sr=8-6&keywords=1080+projector
>
> It's surprisingly good. Color is fine, image is very sharp, and it's under 1K. Their screen is about 10' wide, native 1.85
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 1:16 PM, David Tetzlaff <djtet53 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not up on the latest projector technology. I'm wondering-if/hoping-that technical advances have created an answer to the question above.
>
> Historically, you could divide video projectors into three types:
>
> 1. LCD: bright, with vivid but typically wildly inaccurate color rendition — both in hue and (over)saturation, very poor contrast ratio, and utterly unable to render monochrome images correctly... designed to project computer screens, good for that, not much else.
>
> 2. 1-chip DLP: not so bright, color accurate but a little washed out, pretty good contrast (for a video projector, anyway) but subject to generating flashes of extremely distracting moire due to the rotating color wheel's inability to deal with quick changes in image brightness at cuts.
>
> 3. 3-chip DLP: very nice image in every way, but big, heavy and EXPENSIVE.
>
> My old thought was that perhaps LCD technology would improve to the point where the contrast ratio and color accuracy (especially with monochrome) would improve to the point of minimum acceptability for film screening. I doubt that 1-chip DLPs could have overcome the color-wheel-moire problem. But either way, I don't know what has actually happened in terms of the current market.
>
> I'm not seeking anything that would be bright enough for even a small auditorium, but rather a living-room/small-classroom size venue with seating room for 10-25 people (who can be fairly tightly packed together if need be). I would hope for at least 720P resolution.
>
> Reports on any experiences with recent projector models would be welcome, positive or negative.
>
> And by "reasonably-priced" I mean under $1,000.
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
>
> --
> Julian Antos
> Northwest Chicago Film Society
> www.northwestchicagofilmsociety.org
> 773 827 8991
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Jean-Louis Seguin <bolextech at gmail.com>
> Date: January 25, 2014 8:47:55 PM GMT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Cc: "frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com" <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16mm synchronizers with sound
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> Somewhere in my junk, I have some stand alone optical readers that you plug into a sqwawk box. I don't recall they were ever tested but you're welcome to have them.
>
> Jean-Louis
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
>
>
>> On Jan 25, 2014, at 2:34 PM, Scott Dorsey <kludge at panix.com> wrote:
>>
>> 1. No, as far as I know, nobody has made a synchronizer with an optical head.
>> Magnasync did make outboard optical heads that would plug into a squawk box
>> for editing; they did not have any flywheel. I never saw one in real life,
>> only at trade shows.
>>
>> 2. Yes, you can run the optical head out of a projector outside the projector.
>> Supply 4V to light the exciter lamp (a 5V power supply with two series
>> diodes to drop the voltage is a common solution) and take the solar cell
>> output into a microphone preamp. It will take about 40 dB to bring the
>> signal up to line level.
>>
>> 3. In the seventies there were a lot of JAN projector soundheads available on
>> the surplus market. I tried to make an editing device using one, but I found
>> that without the proper flywheel arrangement the flutter was so high that
>> voices were almost unintelligible, and with the proper flywheel I could not
>> start and stop on a dime (as is needed for editing) without scratching the
>> hell out of the film.
>>
>> 4. If you have a synchronizer, why do you need optical sound anyway? Just take
>> your optical track, dub it to fullcoat, and run it in parallel with the other
>> stuff. The miracle of mag is that it's easy to put anything you want on it
>> any time.
>> --scott
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
>
>
> From: "Jeff Kreines @ Kinetta" <jeff at kinetta.com>
> Date: January 25, 2014 10:51:19 PM GMT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16mm synchronizers with sound
> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> Precision made clever modular synchronizers and I am pretty sure they made a 16 mm optical module. You could attach multiple modules of different formats as needed.
>
> Jeff Kreines
> Kinetta
> jeff at kinetta.com
> kinetta.com
>
>> On Jan 25, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Rebekka Erin Moran <rebekka.moran at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am collecting 16mm synchronizers for an installation project. Does anybody know if the synchronizers with sound heads are for reading Mag only
>> or do any exist that also read optical? Is it possible to remove and optical reader from a projector and make it run independently? I have taken apart an old projector and am attempting to connect the optical head so that it can produce sound from a film loop without a projector. any mechanical information or ideas much appreciated. Also - please be in touch if anybody has any synchronizers of any number of gangs they do not need or want. Many thanks!!
>>
>> all the best,
>> Rebecca
>> _______________________________________________
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
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