[Frameworks] Documentaries within/with a group subject and participatory filmmaker(s)

[Scott MacDonald]

*Well, all I'll say is that I don't see Punishment Park as "clueless"; Jeff
does.*

*But, Sonya, you might find PP interesting, given your topic. The
assemblage of people gathered for the film were playing roles that allowed
them to speak as themselves, about current issues they cared about--they
weren't professional actors.*

*Good luck with your process.*

*Scott*

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 6:15 PM, Jeff Kreines <jeff at kinetta.com> wrote:

> Eliminating mediocre docudramas from the genre “documentaries” is hardly
> narrowing the definition. I dislike the D-word, perhaps because it has
> become meaningless due to arguments like this.
>
> I prefer the term “non-fiction.”
>
> Punishment Park is a somewhat clueless exercise using actors, um,
> enunciating their “feelings,” as you point out.
>
> I suppose one could view it as a “documentary” about actors exploring
> their “feelings,” but it fails as that.
>
> This reminds me of the Academy awarding “Best Documentary” to a
> Wolper-produced insect-fear film called The Hellstrom Chronicles.  I
> suppose the insect footage might be “real.”  But little else.
>
> The late-60s and early 70s spawned a lot of faux-documentaries, or films
> that coopted that era’s non-fiction style. Is FACES a documentary?  Wanda?
> The Candidate?  What about Spinal Tap?
>
> I realize that few people care about these distinctions anymore.
>
> Jeff Kreines
> Kinetta
> jeff at kinetta.com
> kinetta.com
>
> Sent from iPhone.
>
> On Jul 10, 2018, at 3:43 PM, Scott MacDonald <smacdona at hamilton.edu>
> wrote:
>
> *Naaah, Punishment Park is not just faux doc style applied to fiction.
> Watkins devised a fictional situation (based on aspects of the political
> reality of that moment and a premonition of where reality might go next, as
> of 1970), set up so that actors playing their real ideological selves (that
> is, cast to play themselves and improvise their own dialogue) could
> enunciate what they were actually feeling in 1971 and have their
> impassioned arguments with each other documented--as the war in Vietnam
> continued.*
>
> *I don't think Sonya is looking for a narrow definition of "documentary." *
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 3:47 PM, Jeff Kreines <jeff at kinetta.com> wrote:
>
>> None of those Peter Watkins films are documentaries. Faux-documentary
>> style applied to fiction does not a documentary make.  You should know
>> better.
>>
>> Jeff Kreines
>> Kinetta
>> jeff at kinetta.com
>> kinetta.com
>>
>> Sent from iPhone.
>>
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 2:09 PM, luis ? <mabalufilm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 25Cines/seg (2017) Luis Macías
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El mar., 10 jul. 2018 a las 20:17, Jeff Kreines (<jeff at kinetta.com>)
>> escribió:
>>
>>> Demon Lover Diary, by Joel DeMott.
>>>
>>> Jeff Kreines
>>> Kinetta
>>> jeff at kinetta.com
>>> kinetta.com
>>>
>>> Sent from iPhone.
>>>
>>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 12:22 PM, Sonya Mladenova <sonya.mladenova at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> Looking for documentary films shot with/within a group of people engaged
>>> in an activity or some kind of project, independently or in an organized
>>> environment,* in which the filmmaker is a visible and/or an active
>>> participatory presence*. I'm especially interested in films from the
>>> last 25-30 years. I'm investigating the relationship between the filmed
>>> person(s) and the person(s) filming, whatever the configuration.
>>>
>>> Somes examples, but not limited in scope:
>>> Starless Dreams by Mehrdad Oskouei
>>> À ciel ouvert by Mariana Otero
>>> La moindre des choses by Nicolas Philibert
>>>
>>> Many many thanks,
>>>
>>> Sonya
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> FrameWorks mailing list
>>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
>>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> FrameWorks mailing list
>>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
>>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20180710/ba5603f3/attachment.html>