[Frameworks] FrameWorks Digest, Vol 121, Issue 14: Subject: Experimental films on photography
Robert Withers
withersr at earthlink.net
Thu Jun 11 15:57:35 UTC 2020
thanks for your interesting post Bernard Roddy. I’ve been reading a little Bergson too in my desultory fashion. 19th century science and engineering had some interesting ideas. I liked Bergon’s discussion of the unmeasurability of ”intensity” though I think everything is measurable now. But who is interested in intensity?
Robert Withers
withersr at earthlink.net
202 West 80 St #5W NYNY 10024
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:00 AM, frameworks-request at jonasmekasfilms.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Source for pdf's? (Dominic Angerame)
> 2. Supervisuel (Dominic Angerame)
> 3. Re: Source for pdf's? (Michael Campos-Quinn)
> 4. Experimental films on photography (Bernard Roddy)
> 5. Re: Experimental films on photography (John Muse)
> 6. Re: Experimental films on photography (John Muse)
> 7. Re: Experimental films on photography (Bernard Roddy)
>
> From: Dominic Angerame <dominic.angerame at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Source for pdf's?
> Date: June 10, 2020 at 10:00:08 AM EDT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> Joel’s book is not very expensive and worth purchasing if you are serious about using a Bolex. I wish such a book was available when I first started making 16mm films.
>
> Dominic
>
>> On Jun 9, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Justin Rhody <justincliffordrhody at gmail.com <mailto:justincliffordrhody at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone know where I can find pdf's of these books?
>> (or pdf's of other books you'd recommend?)
>>
>>
>> Experimental Filmmaking : Break the Machine - Kathryn Ramey
>> Process Cinema: Handmade Film in the Digital Age - Scott MacKenzie & Janine Marchessault
>> Grafilm - J. Bryne Daniel
>> Experimental filmmaking and the Motion Picture Camera - Joel Schlemowitz
>> Making Images Move: Handmade Cinema and the Other Arts - Gregory Zinman
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Justin
>> _______________________________________________
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com <mailto:FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
>
>
> From: Dominic Angerame <dominic.angerame at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Frameworks] Supervisuel
> Date: June 10, 2020 at 10:02:25 AM EDT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> I have one issue of this magazine Supervisuel #3
>
> Supervisuell #3 Gregory Markopoulis article, STO PALIKARI, article by Jonas Mekas, Bridget Hein article and llustration General Info by Robert Nelson
> Cover: “The Mysteries” by Gregory Markopoulis and Photos from Robert Beavers “Winged Dialogue” in German and English
>
> If interested contact me off site.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Michael Campos-Quinn <michaelcamposquinn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Source for pdf's?
> Date: June 10, 2020 at 11:47:15 AM EDT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> We have a lot of these books in the PFA library (you're in the Bay Area right?). In the next couple of months when things reopen you will be able to drop in to read them all you want. And if there's a title we don't have that you want we can maybe buy it. Public libraries can also request to borrow titles from other libraries for free, check out Oakland Public Library and SFPL.
>
> Michael
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 7:00 AM Dominic Angerame <dominic.angerame at gmail.com <mailto:dominic.angerame at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Joel’s book is not very expensive and worth purchasing if you are serious about using a Bolex. I wish such a book was available when I first started making 16mm films.
>
> Dominic
>
>> On Jun 9, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Justin Rhody <justincliffordrhody at gmail.com <mailto:justincliffordrhody at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone know where I can find pdf's of these books?
>> (or pdf's of other books you'd recommend?)
>>
>>
>> Experimental Filmmaking : Break the Machine - Kathryn Ramey
>> Process Cinema: Handmade Film in the Digital Age - Scott MacKenzie & Janine Marchessault
>> Grafilm - J. Bryne Daniel
>> Experimental filmmaking and the Motion Picture Camera - Joel Schlemowitz
>> Making Images Move: Handmade Cinema and the Other Arts - Gregory Zinman
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Justin
>> _______________________________________________
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com <mailto:FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks <https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com <mailto:FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks <https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks>
>
>
>
> From: Bernard Roddy <roddybp0 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Frameworks] Experimental films on photography
> Date: June 10, 2020 at 4:49:30 PM EDT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> Dear Albert:
>
> This is a nice invitation to read (I quote it below). For me it leaves too much to consider. I had two reactions.First, I have been interested in conceptual art's use of photography. Under these terms we would have to impose a "post-photographic" restriction on what constitutes acceptable examples in your list. I would submit a short list of classic texts written by artists for publication in 1969 and 1970.
>
> But I also just taught a course in which I used standard narrative cinema in order to think about traditional philosophical material. And the film, Memento, became interesting for reasons having nothing to do with any experimental film.
>
> Or so it would appear. One could undertake a whole research agenda in which the role of memory in the understanding of shot relationships is explored. This concerns the experience of the spectator when the questions concern the order of events and their causal relationships. In his Matter and Memory Henri Bergson was preoccupied by 19th century research that involves brain lesions. Bergson uses results in neurophysiology to confirm his hypotheses about memory.
>
> But it was in order to get a handle on Deleuze's reference to the memory image that I found myself reading Bergson. Deleuze is extremely casual with terminology, but Bergson isn't. What Deleuze means by the memory image and the time image can only be appreciated, of course, by reviewing a history of narrative cinema. But what Bergson means when he discusses research into memory disorders can be appreciated by any artist working with images that replicate perception.
>
> In Memento Leonard takes instamatic photographs that are developed before his eyes. They are only part of his basis for deciding what he will do in the future, but as images fixed on paper they make possible repeated experience of the circumstances of some past event.
>
> Why burn a photograph documenting something you did? What is the significance of a character's understanding of the value of a photograph for the understanding that a spectator has of the plot?
>
> Bernie
>
>
> - - - - - -
> Hello all,
>
> I was making a list of experimental film practices on photography and I was
> wondering if you could suggest more titles.
>
> At first I wanted to focus just on movies where photographs are deleted
> (burned, destroyed) or denied but I only know *(nostalgia)* for Hollis
> Frampton and the project *Found Monochromes* by David Batchelor (slides).
> Does anyone know other films where the main purpose is the destruction or
> the invisibility of photographs?
>
> On the other hand I have started a list of films made from photographs.
> There are dozens of films (some of them animations) where the object of
> analysis are still images, from filmed Polaroids to appropriation of
> advertising images from magazines or the accumulation of digital images
> found on the internet:
>
> *Transformation by Holding Time* by Paul de Nooijer
> *Pasadena Freeway Stills* and *Hand Held Day* by Gary Beydler
> *Production Stills* by Morgan Fisher
> *Frank Film* by Frank Mouris
> *Boy Meets Girl* by Eugènia Balcells
> *Wall *by Takashi Ito
> *Photodiary *by Takashi Ito
> *Clandestine Porn Film* by Augustin Gimel
> *DIES IRAE* by Jean Gabriel Périot
> *The World as Will and Representation* de Roy Arden
>
> Do others come to mind?
>
> Thank you,
> Albert Alcoz
>
>
>
> From: John Muse <jmuse at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Experimental films on photography
> Date: June 10, 2020 at 6:35:05 PM EDT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> Hi, Albert. Please consider adding Agnes Varda’s Ulysse to your list as well as the other films in her Cinévardaphoto: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0423987/
>
> And I humbly (and not so humbly) submit the following proposal for your consideration: https://www.academia.edu/34354327/Film_on_Photography_or_The_Eclipse_of_the_Frame_Impakt_Festival_2017 There are a few other films worth thinking about here.
>
> j
>
>
>> On Jun 9, 2020, at 6:06 AM, Albert Alcoz <albertalcoz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I was making a list of experimental film practices on photography and I was wondering if you could suggest more titles.
>>
>> At first I wanted to focus just on movies where photographs are deleted (burned, destroyed) or denied but I only know (nostalgia) for Hollis Frampton and the project Found Monochromes by David Batchelor (slides). Does anyone know other films where the main purpose is the destruction or the invisibility of photographs?
>>
>> On the other hand I have started a list of films made from photographs. There are dozens of films (some of them animations) where the object of analysis are still images, from filmed Polaroids to appropriation of advertising images from magazines or the accumulation of digital images found on the internet:
>>
>> Transformation by Holding Time by Paul de Nooijer
>> Pasadena Freeway Stills and Hand Held Day by Gary Beydler
>> Production Stills by Morgan Fisher
>> Frank Film by Frank Mouris
>> Boy Meets Girl by Eugènia Balcells
>> Wall by Takashi Ito
>> Photodiary by Takashi Ito
>> Clandestine Porn Film by Augustin Gimel
>> DIES IRAE by Jean Gabriel Périot
>> The World as Will and Representation de Roy Arden
>>
>> Do others come to mind?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Albert Alcoz
>> --
>> http://albertalcoz.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
> j/PrM
>
>
> *************************************************
>
> Take care; be well; wash your hands; safeguard all the distances!
>
> John Muse
> Assistant Professor of Visual Studies
> Haverford College
> he/him/his
> j=John PrM=Professor Muse
> http://www.finleymuse.com
> http://www.haverford.edu/faculty/jmuse
> https://haverford.academia.edu/JohnMuse
> https://www.instagram.com/johnmuseartist/
> https://www.facebook.com/jmuse99
>
> *************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: John Muse <jmuse at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Experimental films on photography
> Date: June 10, 2020 at 6:36:51 PM EDT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> Hi, Bernard. I often teach a Film on Photography course and just as often include Memento in the syllabus… only to remove it. Have you taught it? How does it work for students?
>
> Thanks!
>
> j
>
>> On Jun 10, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Bernard Roddy <roddybp0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Albert:
>>
>> This is a nice invitation to read (I quote it below). For me it leaves too much to consider. I had two reactions.First, I have been interested in conceptual art's use of photography. Under these terms we would have to impose a "post-photographic" restriction on what constitutes acceptable examples in your list. I would submit a short list of classic texts written by artists for publication in 1969 and 1970.
>>
>> But I also just taught a course in which I used standard narrative cinema in order to think about traditional philosophical material. And the film, Memento, became interesting for reasons having nothing to do with any experimental film.
>>
>> Or so it would appear. One could undertake a whole research agenda in which the role of memory in the understanding of shot relationships is explored. This concerns the experience of the spectator when the questions concern the order of events and their causal relationships. In his Matter and Memory Henri Bergson was preoccupied by 19th century research that involves brain lesions. Bergson uses results in neurophysiology to confirm his hypotheses about memory.
>>
>> But it was in order to get a handle on Deleuze's reference to the memory image that I found myself reading Bergson. Deleuze is extremely casual with terminology, but Bergson isn't. What Deleuze means by the memory image and the time image can only be appreciated, of course, by reviewing a history of narrative cinema. But what Bergson means when he discusses research into memory disorders can be appreciated by any artist working with images that replicate perception.
>>
>> In Memento Leonard takes instamatic photographs that are developed before his eyes. They are only part of his basis for deciding what he will do in the future, but as images fixed on paper they make possible repeated experience of the circumstances of some past event.
>>
>> Why burn a photograph documenting something you did? What is the significance of a character's understanding of the value of a photograph for the understanding that a spectator has of the plot?
>>
>> Bernie
>>
>>
>> - - - - - -
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I was making a list of experimental film practices on photography and I was
>> wondering if you could suggest more titles.
>>
>> At first I wanted to focus just on movies where photographs are deleted
>> (burned, destroyed) or denied but I only know *(nostalgia)* for Hollis
>> Frampton and the project *Found Monochromes* by David Batchelor (slides).
>> Does anyone know other films where the main purpose is the destruction or
>> the invisibility of photographs?
>>
>> On the other hand I have started a list of films made from photographs.
>> There are dozens of films (some of them animations) where the object of
>> analysis are still images, from filmed Polaroids to appropriation of
>> advertising images from magazines or the accumulation of digital images
>> found on the internet:
>>
>> *Transformation by Holding Time* by Paul de Nooijer
>> *Pasadena Freeway Stills* and *Hand Held Day* by Gary Beydler
>> *Production Stills* by Morgan Fisher
>> *Frank Film* by Frank Mouris
>> *Boy Meets Girl* by Eugènia Balcells
>> *Wall *by Takashi Ito
>> *Photodiary *by Takashi Ito
>> *Clandestine Porn Film* by Augustin Gimel
>> *DIES IRAE* by Jean Gabriel Périot
>> *The World as Will and Representation* de Roy Arden
>>
>> Do others come to mind?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Albert Alcoz
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
> j/PrM
>
>
> *************************************************
>
> Take care; be well; wash your hands; safeguard all the distances!
>
> John Muse
> Assistant Professor of Visual Studies
> Haverford College
> he/him/his
> j=John PrM=Professor Muse
> http://www.finleymuse.com
> http://www.haverford.edu/faculty/jmuse
> https://haverford.academia.edu/JohnMuse
> https://www.instagram.com/johnmuseartist/
> https://www.facebook.com/jmuse99
>
> *************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Bernard Roddy <roddybp0 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Experimental films on photography
> Date: June 10, 2020 at 6:59:26 PM EDT
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
>
>
> It's fine. I'm sorry, I don't take interest in the question.
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 5:37 PM John Muse <jmuse at sonic.net <mailto:jmuse at sonic.net>> wrote:
> Hi, Bernard. I often teach a Film on Photography course and just as often include Memento in the syllabus… only to remove it. Have you taught it? How does it work for students?
>
> Thanks!
>
> j
>
> > On Jun 10, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Bernard Roddy <roddybp0 at gmail.com <mailto:roddybp0 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Albert:
> >
> > This is a nice invitation to read (I quote it below). For me it leaves too much to consider. I had two reactions.First, I have been interested in conceptual art's use of photography. Under these terms we would have to impose a "post-photographic" restriction on what constitutes acceptable examples in your list. I would submit a short list of classic texts written by artists for publication in 1969 and 1970.
> >
> > But I also just taught a course in which I used standard narrative cinema in order to think about traditional philosophical material. And the film, Memento, became interesting for reasons having nothing to do with any experimental film.
> >
> > Or so it would appear. One could undertake a whole research agenda in which the role of memory in the understanding of shot relationships is explored. This concerns the experience of the spectator when the questions concern the order of events and their causal relationships. In his Matter and Memory Henri Bergson was preoccupied by 19th century research that involves brain lesions. Bergson uses results in neurophysiology to confirm his hypotheses about memory.
> >
> > But it was in order to get a handle on Deleuze's reference to the memory image that I found myself reading Bergson. Deleuze is extremely casual with terminology, but Bergson isn't. What Deleuze means by the memory image and the time image can only be appreciated, of course, by reviewing a history of narrative cinema. But what Bergson means when he discusses research into memory disorders can be appreciated by any artist working with images that replicate perception.
> >
> > In Memento Leonard takes instamatic photographs that are developed before his eyes. They are only part of his basis for deciding what he will do in the future, but as images fixed on paper they make possible repeated experience of the circumstances of some past event.
> >
> > Why burn a photograph documenting something you did? What is the significance of a character's understanding of the value of a photograph for the understanding that a spectator has of the plot?
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> >
> > - - - - - -
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I was making a list of experimental film practices on photography and I was
> > wondering if you could suggest more titles.
> >
> > At first I wanted to focus just on movies where photographs are deleted
> > (burned, destroyed) or denied but I only know *(nostalgia)* for Hollis
> > Frampton and the project *Found Monochromes* by David Batchelor (slides).
> > Does anyone know other films where the main purpose is the destruction or
> > the invisibility of photographs?
> >
> > On the other hand I have started a list of films made from photographs.
> > There are dozens of films (some of them animations) where the object of
> > analysis are still images, from filmed Polaroids to appropriation of
> > advertising images from magazines or the accumulation of digital images
> > found on the internet:
> >
> > *Transformation by Holding Time* by Paul de Nooijer
> > *Pasadena Freeway Stills* and *Hand Held Day* by Gary Beydler
> > *Production Stills* by Morgan Fisher
> > *Frank Film* by Frank Mouris
> > *Boy Meets Girl* by Eugènia Balcells
> > *Wall *by Takashi Ito
> > *Photodiary *by Takashi Ito
> > *Clandestine Porn Film* by Augustin Gimel
> > *DIES IRAE* by Jean Gabriel Périot
> > *The World as Will and Representation* de Roy Arden
> >
> > Do others come to mind?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Albert Alcoz
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com <mailto:FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks <https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks>
>
> j/PrM
>
>
> *************************************************
>
> Take care; be well; wash your hands; safeguard all the distances!
>
> John Muse
> Assistant Professor of Visual Studies
> Haverford College
> he/him/his
> j=John PrM=Professor Muse
> http://www.finleymuse.com <http://www.finleymuse.com/>
> http://www.haverford.edu/faculty/jmuse <http://www.haverford.edu/faculty/jmuse>
> https://haverford.academia.edu/JohnMuse <https://haverford.academia.edu/JohnMuse>
> https://www.instagram.com/johnmuseartist/ <https://www.instagram.com/johnmuseartist/>
> https://www.facebook.com/jmuse99 <https://www.facebook.com/jmuse99>
>
> *************************************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com <mailto:FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks <https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
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