[Frameworks] FW: New book: Experimental Film and Photochemical Practices

[Ryder White]

Thanks Fred, for more eloquently describing the problem with the email from
Bernie that I took issue with. I mischaracterized it as a critique, and it
wasn’t really...a critique requires, as you pointed out, detailed study and
analysis.

I like this list, and I respect and admire the people who have put so much
into it. I was warned, 11 years ago when I joined it in university, that
there is a strong strain of negativity in Frameworks...I’ve chosen to
ignore it (like you, Fred, thinking better of myself...) for the most part,
but lately I’ve felt myself really tempted to unsubscribe. But I don’t want
to! There is so much good stuff here! Eric’s efforts to tour the Peter
Hutton tribute program compiled by Mark Street and Jennifer Reeves is just
one of many things that would have flown under my radar otherwise...but
because of the list, we got to have it in Vancouver. I’m at a point in my
life where I can’t be as involved with film art as I might like to be, and
frameworks is one of the things that helps me continue to feel connected.

So that’s my little plug. Critique and discourse are great, necessary even.
But bloviating and ad hominems are not.

Kim, sorry to hijack the thread. Congrats on your book.

Ryder


On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 14:46 Fred Camper <f at fredcamper.com> wrote:

> Ryder,
>
> I was going to reply to Roddy's idiotic post, even though I have
> generally tried to ignore him based on past experience, and thought
> better of it, but now you have (unintentionally) inspired me to enter.
>
> Respectfully, I disagree with you. In fact, I would like to see more
> criticism of things posted to FrameWords. Someone posts a video that you
> dislike; tell us what's wrong with it. We are adults; we should be able
> to take it. But don't talk about it unless you view all of it, and with
> care.
>
> The problem instead is that Roddy posted a review of a book based on the
> first four pages. He seems to be proud of himself for having read four
> pages and formed an opinion based on them. The amount of irresponsible
> disrespect inherent in sending such a critique to, what is it, a
> thousand people who are serious about film in all parts of the world, is
> mind-boggling. Why would anyone be interested in his opinion of the
> first four pages. Roddy, books often start in one place and end up in
> another, as you ought to know if you have ever read any. I would never
> post an opinion on the first four minutes of a three hour video, or even
> the first two hours of it. Someone who would write a critique on the
> first four pages of a book sounds like someone who is only more
> interested in broadcasting their own thinking than in learning from others.
>
> I have occasionally learned from books I disliked on topics that
> interested me, because the process of reading the whole thing becomes a
> process of finding out, through your own objections, what you think.
>
> The distinction I am making is important to me. Read a whole book, and,
> if you disagree with it, construct an answer, a critique, an objection.
> That is showing respect. Commenting on the first four pages is not only
> disrespectful, but moronic.
>
> Fred Camper
> Chicago.
>
-- 


Ryder Thomas White
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ryderthomaswhite.com
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