[Frameworks] Digital Master to 16mm/35mm --› Scan back to Digital

Tue Mar 28 06:37:46 UTC 2023

So things get real and I got my Ektachrome. I will shoot on 6 or 12 fps. Some last questions: 

If I shoot on 12 or 6 fps, half or quarter playback on Quicktime player should be fine, right? Or would you use an Editing Software 
Since the cam only shoots 4:3, I wondered wether I could squeeze the 16:9 film and then after scanning desqueeze it. Has anyone tried it?
Exposing Positive Film is always quite something: Do you think taking a digital camera as a reference works or would you still slightly overexpose it? There is a lot of detail in the dark areas that I would want to capture. 

*Context cause the topic is a little older: I will film a digital master on 16mm and then scan it back. 

Thanks and best
Janis 

> On 7 Feb 2023, at 13:38, Nicole <nicole at magiklantern.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Janis!
> 
> I think you attributed the comment about testing to me, but I think it was Anna who suggested it. Either way I think yes, she means to take some test frames at different exposures and process them to see what comes out. 
> I love the idea of experimentation for the sake of it, and transferring the work back and forth to get filmic characteristics. I think you will end up with all kinds of texture and artifacts from the back and forth transfer processes. I hope you will share what you get with us! I would say that you could add some "film" texture digitally, but I think we all know those filters are not the same. Best of luck!
> 
> Nicole Elaine Baker Peterson (she/her/they)
> Founder & Head Programmer, Media Monsters
> nicole at magiklantern.com <mailto:nicole at magiklantern.com>
> twitch.tv/media_monsters <http://twitch.tv/media_monsters> | magiklantern.com <http://www.magiklantern.com/>
> 
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 12:46 AM Janis Polar <contact at janispolar.com <mailto:contact at janispolar.com>> wrote:
> Thanks for all the great advice and tips. I follow up on some things.
> 
> @Nicole:
> 
>> - some testing to determine exposure
>> 
> What do you mean by that? Create and process testframes?
> 
>> I'm curious why you want to go from video to film and back to video.
> 
> - I think general curiosity to try it out/experiment with this. 
> - color: I would hope the film would give the colors some extra ‘filmic’ characters 
> - grain 
> 
>> - either utilizing an animation motor (Rex 4 or Rex 5 compatible) to allow for a longer exposure 
>> 
> 
> This would be for the bolex? I don’t know those motors. A screen should be bright enough for a 500t stock, no?
> 
>> OR depending on your film stock, opening up your aperture more than you might want to for focus situations and sharpness. 
>> 
> 
> I also thought about filming it with a Krasnogorsk and a sharp EF lens 
> 
> @André 
> 
>> If not frame by frame you’ll need a camera with Crystal sync motor or a motor which can synchronize with the sync signal from the monitor.
>> 
> 
> 
> Is this the standard for non-spring-loaded cameras? I guess your suggestions makes sense, unless i purposely want the flickering. 
> 
> @Anna:
>> So, if you want extra grain, you might wanna use 500T
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> @Jimmy: 
> 
>> For stuff with motion you should look into adjusting your shutter speed/angle to avoid flicker, depending on the refresh rate of your monitor...but that could also be an interesting thing to experiment with.
> 
> That could actually be interesting and very much suiting the clip, since we experimented a lot already with light flickering with off-sync shutters. Only difficulty: No way to test how that looks before its processed…could be to strong/too off with the digital flickering. 
> 
> @Jeff:
> 
> Thanks for the lab recommendation. Why doesn’t direct printing on film create grain? Cause positive film does that way less? 
> 
> Best
> Janis
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5 Feb 2023, at 10:36, Nicole <nicole at magiklantern.com <mailto:nicole at magiklantern.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Janis,
>> 
>> I'm curious why you want to go from video to film and back to video. What effect is it you are trying to achieve. I work back and forth between formats often, but mostly go from film to video without going back unless it's for a screening where they only screen film. I'm just not sure what to suggest without knowing what it is you are trying to do exactly.
>> I hope my question makes sense! Also, the still looks really interesting. I'd love to see the whole video.
>> 
>> Nicole Elaine Baker Peterson (she/her/they)
>> Founder & Head Programmer, Media Monsters
>> nicole at magiklantern.com <mailto:nicole at magiklantern.com>
>> twitch.tv/media_monsters <http://twitch.tv/media_monsters> | magiklantern.com <http://www.magiklantern.com/>
>> 
>> On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 7:43 AM Colinet andré <andre.colinet at telenet.be <mailto:andre.colinet at telenet.be>> wrote:
>> If not frame by frame you’ll need a camera with Crystal sync motor or a motor which can synchronize with the sync signal from the monitor.
>> 
>> All the best.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Envoyé à partir de Courrier <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> pour Windows
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> De : Anna Kipervaser <mailto:anna.kipervaser at gmail.com>
>> Envoyé le :dimanche 5 février 2023 00:55
>> À : frameworks at film-gallery.org <mailto:frameworks at film-gallery.org>
>> Objet :Re: [Frameworks] Digital Master to 16mm/35mm --› Scan back to Digital
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> When I film off of a monitor, I do single frames, like you would on an optical printer. So I move the video one frame, and use a shutter release to take one frame (on I) on the Bolex, then advance the video, etc etc etc. This method requires some obvious things and some not so obvious things: 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> - some testing to determine exposure
>> 
>> - making sure the lens of your camera is centered 
>> 
>> - making sure that the monitor is level
>> 
>> - either utilizing an animation motor (Rex 4 or Rex 5 compatible) to allow for a longer exposure OR depending on your film stock, opening up your aperture more than you might want to for focus situations and sharpness. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> This method reproduces exactly what's on screen when done right. So, if you want extra grain, you might wanna use 500T or if you want extra artifacts like age fog, you might wanna use old 500T. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
> 
> I've had success filming off computer monitors with 16mm and super 8.  For stuff with motion you should look into adjusting your shutter speed/angle to avoid flicker, depending on the refresh rate of your monitor...but that could also be an interesting thing to experiment with.  You could also experiment with different blending modes in your editing software to combine the 4k and 16mm...could be especially crazy if there's some flicker in there.  But I digress :) 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 10:57 AM <janis at janislionel.com <mailto:janis at janislionel.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 10:57 AM <janis at janislionel.com <mailto:janis at janislionel.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello 
>> 
>> I have an experimental music video project which only operates with analogue/optical effects. It was all filmed with digital cameras high iso - so its veeeeery grainy (purposely so, see sample still). Now I would like to perform a final step over: Print it on 16mm (or 35mm film) and then scan it back in 2k or 4k
>> 
>> There are three ways I imagine this can happen, tho have no previous experience: 
>> - 16mm print out and scan back to digital: quite expensive to do, even for 4min. 
>> - 35mm print out and scan back to digital: probably cheaper - though maybe the resolution is too good / the grain no present enough. Then again: Maybe this is just the necessary amount of information/sharpness needed to render the digital grain/artefacts clearly
>> - Use a Bolex or Krasnogorsk and film the digital master from a screen or projector, develop the film and scan back to digital (?): does this give you adequate quality? I'm especially interested in this technique since its the cheapest but also because i imagine the 'sloppiness' of the bolex/krasnogorsk adds a movement/breathing that could be quite interesting for e.g. the shots that were filmed on a gimbal. 
>> 
>> Questions: 
>> 
>> - has any of you experience with filming from a screen / projector? If yes, I'd appreciate some tips regarding technique. 
>> - I guess in all the cases above it would make sense to have a digital master that is rather a little more overexposed than underexposed? 
>> - ho do overexposures end up on the film negative/scan back? does it get more organic or does it stay rather digital in its aesthetic? 
>> 
>> I hope I could express myself understandably. 
>> 
>> Best
>> Janis 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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