[Frameworks] {Disarmed} Re: Andy Warhol's SLEEP / Providence, RI / Feb 18 / Magic Lantern + RK Projects

Mon Feb 13 00:09:55 CST 2012

Dear all,

Well firstly, I apologize for posting a provocative, sketchy,  
response on the way out the door...  Now having returned, I can take  
more time.

Secondly, I was commenting predominantly on Myron Ort's comment: "  
Not so much an homage to Warhol as an homage to Youtube!   LOL",  
which seems to reduce the presentation wholly to the teenage homages  
of pop stars on Youtube that "produce" a music video created from  
photographs related to the song only by the presence of the 'artist',  
often wholly disjunct stylistically and temporally.  All I wanted to  
say was Vexations does have a connection--in the temporal moment of  
Sleep and the stylistic shaping of duration.  It is quite fair to  
point out that I missed you LOL, which I see now, and even quoted  
above.  I'll confess it is an abbreviation I find particularly  
annoying; I overlooked it to in the spirit of friendship/ 
camaraderie.  But it seems we all may be skimming the texts.  For my  
misreading, I'm Sorry.

Third, there is a question of revisionist history I am  
introducing...  A number of assertions I make trace the language of  
the original post from RK Projects and the Magic Lantern Cinema.   
Even so, the link I offered does seem to assert a connection in the  
first paragraph referencing it to John Cage, who stated it to: "Emma  
Lavigne, curator at the Pompidou Centre in Paris, who wrote in an  
essay published in the Warhol Live  exhibition catalogue that the  
impact made by the Vexations concert "was decisive and inspired the  
artist to the unprecedented, repetitive structure of the film Sleep  
(1963)".  I also recall hearing a John Giorno poetry reading at MoMA  
in which he claims a similar connection for Vexations.  But on  
further reflection, Giorno also added to the significance of Cage's  
presentation of Vexations, a story of his discussion about Sleep with  
Branden Joseph in which the latter connects the repetition and  
editing process to Rosicrucian ideas (and that Satie was a Rosicrucian).

Between Giorno and P. Adams Sitney, there are claims from both ends  
of the spectrum (poet to historian) that Warhol shot Sleep with 100'  
foot rolls.  Giorno even claims in the MoMA interview that Warhol was  
even hand winding the camera at the beginning of filming.

However, I still find what Tony Conrad presents compelling.  The  
Vexations concert was, in fact, during Sept. of 1963, well before VU  
public arrival in the latter half of 1964.  Yet, Cale's gig-ography  
on the internets claims the La Monte Young concert at at Henry  
Geldzahler's home took place 3/7/65, a year after the Jan. '64  
premier of Sleep.  What seems revisionist in the Vexations narrative  
is that it seems to reduces Warhol to an acolyte of Rauschenberg/ 
Johns/Cage, and I believe he was more complicated than that--Contrary  
to Warhol's own words.  I'd love to hear more of Tony's thoughts  
about the La Monte Young influences.

Damon.

On Feb 12, 2012, at 11:46 PM, Tony Conrad wrote:

> John Cale performed in the Vexations concert, among others of  
> course, but that
> was well before the VU, as I recall. However, Andy was in contact  
> with La Monte
> Young about sound for his films when they were shown at Lincoln  
> Center.
>
> I can't accept the idea that Andy got the idea for repetition, or  
> editing
> together long films, from Satie. First, it's far more probable that  
> he got the
> idea from our group with La Monte; we even gave a concert at Henry  
> Geldzahler's
> place. Second, Andy generally used a magazine with 1200 foot reels  
> so he wouldn't
> have to splice or do any editing.
>
> ----------t0ny
>
>
>
> On Sun 02/12/12  6:11 PM , Eric Theise erictheise at gmail.com sent:
>> Hi Fred,
>>
>> In "Edie" (Stein w/Plimpton, pp 234-235), George Plimpton
>> recountsriding in a freight elevator with Warhol and mentioning  
>> the Carnegie
>> Hall concert organized by Cage.
>>
>> "I mentioned it to Andy only because I thought he might be vaguely
>> interested--he was doing these eight-hour films of people sleeping.
>> It never occurred to me that he knew of this concert, or of Satie,
>> since it wouldn't have surprised me a bit if he'd never heard of
>> Satie.  His reaction startled me.  He said, "Ohhh, ohhh, ohhh!"
>> I'dnever seen his face so animated.  It made a distinct impression.
>> Between ohhh's he told me that he'd actually gone to the concert and
>> sat through the whole thing.  He couldn't have been more delighted to
>> be telling me about it."
>>
>> My reading of the announcement is that the Vexations concert in
>> Providence is 45 minutes long, and that it precedes the screening.
>>
>> --Eric
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Fred Camper  .com> wrote:>  
>> Quoting Damon  @gmail.com>:>
>>>> While this presentation of Sleep certainly
>> differs from the original>> Â screenings of the film, it is
>> also far from a Youtube hommage.>> Vexations played an important  
>> role in
>> Warhol's conception of the>> film, and he took from Satie a working
>> method making possible the>> editing of his short reels into a  
>> lengthy
>> film.>>
>>>> Sorry I don't have time at the moment to
>> unpack this point as I'm>> running out the door, but here is a  
>> link to
>> some supporting>> literature to this position:
>>>> http://www.warholstars.org/news/johncage.html
>>>
>>> Is there some aspect of the text on this link
>> that actually supports> your claim that "Vexations"
>> specifically influenced "Sleep"? It's not> even clear that Warhol  
>> ever heard
>> "Vexations.">
>>> But even if the answer is yes, that doesn't
>> "support" playing one> during a sceening of the other. Would you have
>> Pound's "Cantos"> recited during a screening of "Dog Star
>> Man"? Excerpts from the> "Tibetan Book of the Dead" read during
>> George Landow's "Bardo Follies"?>
>>> Fred Camper
>>> Chicago
>>>
>>>
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