[Frameworks] FW: New book: Experimental Film and Photochemical Practices

[Fred Camper]

Ryder,

Thanks for writing. In my experience, it is pretty easy to avoid getting 
too embroiled here, and i speak as someone who was once part of the 
embriolment. Ad hominem attacks are easy to recognize, and avoid. It's 
good training in learning what to ignore and stay away from. So do stay.

As for me, I try to restrict my bloviations to Facebook, which certainly 
deserves them.

Fred Camper
Chicago

On 11/4/2020 2:07 PM, Ryder White wrote:
> Thanks Fred, for more eloquently describing the problem with the email 
> from Bernie that I took issue with. I mischaracterized it as a 
> critique, and it wasn’t really...a critique requires, as you pointed 
> out, detailed study and analysis.
>
> I like this list, and I respect and admire the people who have put so 
> much into it. I was warned, 11 years ago when I joined it in 
> university, that there is a strong strain of negativity in 
> Frameworks...I’ve chosen to ignore it (like you, Fred, thinking better 
> of myself...) for the most part, but lately I’ve felt myself really 
> tempted to unsubscribe. But I don’t want to! There is so much good 
> stuff here! Eric’s efforts to tour the Peter Hutton tribute program 
> compiled by Mark Street and Jennifer Reeves is just one of many things 
> that would have flown under my radar otherwise...but because of the 
> list, we got to have it in Vancouver. I’m at a point in my life where 
> I can’t be as involved with film art as I might like to be, and 
> frameworks is one of the things that helps me continue to feel connected.
>
> So that’s my little plug. Critique and discourse are great, necessary 
> even. But bloviating and ad hominems are not.
>
> Kim, sorry to hijack the thread. Congrats on your book.
>
> Ryder
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 14:46 Fred Camper <f at fredcamper.com 
> <mailto:f at fredcamper.com>> wrote:
>
>     Ryder,
>
>     I was going to reply to Roddy's idiotic post, even though I have
>     generally tried to ignore him based on past experience, and thought
>     better of it, but now you have (unintentionally) inspired me to enter.
>
>     Respectfully, I disagree with you. In fact, I would like to see more
>     criticism of things posted to FrameWords. Someone posts a video
>     that you
>     dislike; tell us what's wrong with it. We are adults; we should be
>     able
>     to take it. But don't talk about it unless you view all of it, and
>     with
>     care.
>
>     The problem instead is that Roddy posted a review of a book based
>     on the
>     first four pages. He seems to be proud of himself for having read
>     four
>     pages and formed an opinion based on them. The amount of
>     irresponsible
>     disrespect inherent in sending such a critique to, what is it, a
>     thousand people who are serious about film in all parts of the
>     world, is
>     mind-boggling. Why would anyone be interested in his opinion of the
>     first four pages. Roddy, books often start in one place and end up in
>     another, as you ought to know if you have ever read any. I would
>     never
>     post an opinion on the first four minutes of a three hour video,
>     or even
>     the first two hours of it. Someone who would write a critique on the
>     first four pages of a book sounds like someone who is only more
>     interested in broadcasting their own thinking than in learning
>     from others.
>
>     I have occasionally learned from books I disliked on topics that
>     interested me, because the process of reading the whole thing
>     becomes a
>     process of finding out, through your own objections, what you think.
>
>     The distinction I am making is important to me. Read a whole book,
>     and,
>     if you disagree with it, construct an answer, a critique, an
>     objection.
>     That is showing respect. Commenting on the first four pages is not
>     only
>     disrespectful, but moronic.
>
>     Fred Camper
>     Chicago.
>
> -- 
>
>
> Ryder Thomas White
> SENT FROM MOBILE
> ryderthomaswhite.com <http://ryderthomaswhite.com>
> Pronouns: he/him/his
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