[Frameworks] Peertube for experimental filmmaking?

Mon Nov 21 15:45:24 CST 2022

Hi Florian and everyone,

Usually I just read your emails and don’t say anything, but in this case I wanted to say that this conversation is really interesting. Sadly, I don’t have an answer.

I didn’t know Critical Commons, it sounds great. I didn’t know either that Vimeo is focusing in B2B, that doesn’t sound so great… I’ve always used Vimeo, most of my films are there—completely public because I haven’t find a way to monetize my work, which is another huge issue for another time—, but I’m quite concerned about that kind of commercial platforms and I have a rather critical view of them. The problem is that I don’t think there’re many options, or at least I don’t know them.

I would like to have a streaming platform for experimental cinema. I don't buy DVDs for several reasons that are not relevant to this conversation, but I'd use a streaming platform. Not to mention that a lot of experimental films are not even available on DVD. Maybe I'm getting too far out of the conversation, but I'm very interested in this topic and the problems related to distribution, so thank you for bringing it up.

Blanca

(Ø)
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> El 21 nov 2022, a las 19:00, frameworks-request at film-gallery.org escribió:
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Peertube for experimental filmmaking? (Anderson, Steven)
>   2. Re: Info on Showcron 16mm Flatbed (Seth Mitter)
> 
> De: "Anderson, Steven" <sfanders at tft.ucla.edu <mailto:sfanders at tft.ucla.edu>>
> Asunto: Re: [Frameworks] Peertube for experimental filmmaking?
> Fecha: 21 de noviembre de 2022, 18:18:16 CET
> Para: "frameworks at film-gallery.org <mailto:frameworks at film-gallery.org>" <frameworks at film-gallery.org <mailto:frameworks at film-gallery.org>>
> 
> 
> Greetings, Frameworks-
> 
> I haven't been very active on the list lately, but I was pleased to see Critical Commons included in this discussion. I have administered this site for the last 14 years without ever removing a single uploaded video in response to a copyright challenge or DMCA takedown. 
> 
> Critical Commons was originally funded by the MacArthur Foundation in 2008; it now runs on MediaCMS https://mediacms.io/ <https://mediacms.io/> which is a free, open source streaming platform developed and maintained by Greek anarchists -- it's robust and versatile and I highly recommend it if you're thinking of hosting your own video streaming instance.
> 
> Florian is correct -- Critical Commons was designed for scholars and educators to share media or embed in electronic publications -- it's also true that the 10,000+ unlicensed media files currently streaming are mostly commercial content, but that's just what our base of 10K+ registered users have uploaded. It's a core provision of CC's safe harbor that I do not moderate or limit what gets uploaded, so there's nothing stopping this community from uploading alternative content as long as it is transformed by critical commentary. There's also nothing stopping users from uploading media that they own the rights to, but you can use any streaming service for that. 
> 
> To maximize the fair use justification, the general rule is to upload only as much as needed to make your point -- in some cases this could be a complete short work, which is more difficult to justify -- but this is entirely in the hands of the uploader. On a related note, I would encourage this community -- and all others -- not to adopt the language of "piracy" to describe uses that are fair and legal and do no harm to creators. 
> 
> To add content to Critical Commons, all that is needed is an Advanced User account and a note to me via the contact form:
> https://criticalcommons.org/accounts/signup/ <https://criticalcommons.org/accounts/signup/>
> https://criticalcommons.org/contact <https://criticalcommons.org/contact>
> 
> I try to screen out lawyers and trolls when approving Advanced status, so just let me know who you are or what you want to do via the contact form.
> 
> Steve 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Florian Cramer <flrncrmr at gmail.com <mailto:flrncrmr at gmail.com>>
> Date: Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 4:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Peertube for experimental filmmaking?
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at film-gallery.org <mailto:frameworks at film-gallery.org>>
> 
> Hello Pip, Quentin,
> 
> Criticalcommons seems to be a scholarly site for film analysis that provides commented (commercial) film snippets based on fair use regulations. Odyssee.com <http://odyssee.com/> seems to be a somewhat questionable startup that sells its video hosting service as being blockchain-based although the actually streaming is done through Bittorrent.
> 
> Regarding the use of copyrighted films on Peertube, since it's a decentral network, moderation policies are up to the individual server/instance. It is entirely possible to run a Peertube instance that (a) honors copyright and (b) is focused on experimental film and video work.
> 
> Maybe the third option would be to upload videos on archive.org <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://archive.org__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!q3xpR8zFzR2MnvMCqLPGwg9kATGoMeNQ9SK2kROuVVTNpp9217KpKmqGZh-mFZx4Umenx7wP-UpKopeKiJ5I$> . It has a working video hosting infrastructure, is a non-profit and involves people like Rick Prelinger. However, as a single organization and single provider, it's potentially also a single point of failure.
> 
> -F
> 
> -- 
> blog: https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!q3xpR8zFzR2MnvMCqLPGwg9kATGoMeNQ9SK2kROuVVTNpp9217KpKmqGZh-mFZx4Umenx7wP-UpKosdDZUdZ$>
> bio:  http://floriancramer.nl <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://floriancramer.nl__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!q3xpR8zFzR2MnvMCqLPGwg9kATGoMeNQ9SK2kROuVVTNpp9217KpKmqGZh-mFZx4Umenx7wP-UpKot5w-8IO$>
> 
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 4:44 PM Quentin Darcq <quentindarcq at gmail.com <mailto:quentindarcq at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hello Florian, Pip and everyone
> 
> Do you think Criticalcommons.org <http://criticalcommons.org/> or https://odysee.com/ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://odysee.com/__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!q3xpR8zFzR2MnvMCqLPGwg9kATGoMeNQ9SK2kROuVVTNpp9217KpKmqGZh-mFZx4Umenx7wP-UpKorM7Ws6J$> might be good alternative ? Maybe the first one, Criticalcommons ?
> 
> Quentin
> 
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 3:59 PM Pip Chodorov <pip at re-voir.com <mailto:pip at re-voir.com>> wrote:
> Hi Florian,
> 
> I do not have any experience with Peertube except that it is where I found hosted a wealth of pirated content by experimental filmmakers whom I distribute, culled from our DVD editions and others. It was quite difficult to remove (because anyone can post anything there). At least when we find pirated content on YouTube, we can flag it and it is removed immediately. It is a sad game of whack-a-mole that has to played regularly in order to protect author’s rights (though I have nothing against those filmmakers who feel flattered to be pirated, it is difficult to sell their DVDs in that case).
> 
> I am sensitive to your concerns about Vimeo, though practically it is still a good technical solution for hosting videos.
> 
> The mobile app I developed for Re:Voir last year (“Re:Voir Online”) is a platform for us to allow people to see the films we distribute in the case that they have no DVD player, or live in a place where it is hard to find DVDs, and do not mind watching films on their phone or tablet. It does a service for those viewers as well as for the filmmakers wishing their films to be seen more widely. It is also possible for us to host films that we have not published on DVD, and there are currently quite a few films on the app that are not available on other media. Sometimes we want to distribute films for which a DVD edition would not be justified. Of course this is a proprietary app that requires a distribution agreement with Re:Voir, but for some this could be a useful solution. I imagined opening part of it up to create what could be called an “internet filmmakers’ cooperative” but this will have to wait until there are enough subscribers for the app to be economically self-sufficient. All this to say: you are welcome to submit your films to us for distribution if you want your films online to be monetized.
> 
> Since I founded FrameWorks, I have been interested in online solutions for filmmakers to connect and share their work, but I do not believe there is an open source initiative for experimental films. It could have been Ubu, except that they were also pirating our content. Let us know if you find anything!
> 
> Pip Chodorov
> 
> > On Nov 20, 2022, at 11:27 PM, Florian Cramer <flrncrmr at gmail.com <mailto:flrncrmr at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Do other people here have experiences with Peertube and can recommend friendly servers/'instances'? Or are there even Peertube instances run by people from the Frameworks community? 
> > 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> De: Seth Mitter <seth.mitter at gmail.com <mailto:seth.mitter at gmail.com>>
> Asunto: Re: [Frameworks] Info on Showcron 16mm Flatbed
> Fecha: 21 de noviembre de 2022, 18:45:12 CET
> Para: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at film-gallery.org <mailto:frameworks at film-gallery.org>>
> 
> 
> Having moved two donated Showchrons in the past year I can add that one of their virtues is a design that allows the viewing screen to be quickly removed and the entire flatbed surface will  unlock and pivot so the whole thing can roll through a standard doorway.
> 
> Also worth mentioning: one of the donated Showchrons belonged to Chick Strand and was used to edit many of her films. If it was good enough for Chick to cut Artificial Paradise or whatever else she did with it, it's probably good enough for your purposes. 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 10:49 PM Todd Eacrett <hellbox at antimatter.ca <mailto:hellbox at antimatter.ca>> wrote:
> Replacing the plastic screen with a real ground glass will improve the image as well.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Todd Eacrett wrote:
>> 
>> I've had a 6-plate Showchron for about 20 years and still occasionally use it, so I'm going to disagree with Jeff. I live in a part of the world where people aren't giving away viable flatbeds on a regular basis, so I may be less discerning.
>> 
>> It's not a Steenbeck, but it's not junk. The modular construction means motors, boards, etc can be pulled independently (if you can find replacements or repair). The screen unit comes off and the top flips up to go through a residential-size door. That beige formica and wood trim has a certain early 80s corporate kitchen vibe. 
>> 
>> Oh, and Showchron was started by Firesign Theatre's Peter Bergman, so there's that. The flatbeds, or at least components, were made by Honeywell.
>> 
>> Liberman Sound (formerly in LA, now in Portland) used to have some parts and would service them, not sure if they still do. The toothed belts will probably need replacing, but those are standard industrial items. The amp in mine was toast when I got it, but there's a preamp out, and it easy enough to get a direct feed from individual sound heads. I have a manual and circuit diagrams if you need copies. 
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> 
>> Todd Eacrett
>> Victoria BC Canada
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